An Alabama woman convicted of shop lifting from a Wal Mart store was ordered to parade outside the store on two consecutive Saturday's wearing a sandwich board which proclaimed "I am a thief, I stole from Wal - Mart.
Such retribution through humiliation is becoming quite fashionable in American Bible Belt states and unsurprisingly a few minutes research revealed that the Judges keen to hand out such punishments are the ones who make a big deal out of the fundamentalist Christian faith.
Such Christians are so far up their own fundaments of course they see no contradiction in inflicting total humiliation on a poor person whose small crime is born out of poverty and need while at the same time praising a giant corporation like Wal Mart for its "Christian Values" and good business practice when it steals from its customers, suppliers and staff.
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- 2007-05-08 @ 14:58:25
Query: How do you know that their crime is born out of poverty or need and not just greed and avarice? In what way does Wal Mart steal from its customers, suppliers and staff?
Ask yourself this. Is humiliation of this sort more liable to make the offender desist than a smack on the wrist and 10 hours community service?
I am not a fundamental christian, or really a christian of any sort. Neither am I somebody who rails against large businesses based on prejudices either.
Nice post though Ian.-
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-09 @ 18:11:45
How do Wal Mart steal? Where do I start? How about: in order to evade the minimum wage regulations in the US Wal - Mart reduced the working hours of low grade staff but those staff were required to do the same amount of work and told if they fell behind they would lose their jobs. The managers very generously allowed people to work through statutory breaks.
I don't rail against big busindess because of prejudices, I rail against those big businesses whose corportate ethos is similar to that of the rat pack. And as a senior consultant I have a lot of experience of such organisations.
Unfortunately Irish even if this was the right forum I am far too much at peace with myself now to write the book on the failings of American multinationals that make a big thing of their "Christian Values."
But I will add that in the states Wal Mart require their staff to participate in "Christian" prayers.
Is that hypocrisy or is it hypocrisy.
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sallyontour
- http://sallyontour.blog.co.uk
- 2007-05-08 @ 15:28:14
Not prejudices but verifiable facts - see http://walmartwatch.com/issues/
Humiliation is no deterrent in itself, especially in our "am I bovvered?" society - the British ASBO is proof enough of that. Where to next? Do we start cutting thieves hands off, as in 'An eye for an eye ...'? How do we differentiate between the thief below the poverty line who steals because he is hungry, and the thief below the poverty line who steals because he can?
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-09 @ 18:16:28
Well in this case the report I read on Salon.com included in the details of the case that the woman had stolen to feed her kids after her benefit was cut by the welfare agency. Apparently they thought that not being able to find anybody to look after her kids was not a valid reason for turning down a job.
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Munzly
Pro - http://limerwiki.blog.co.uk/
- 2007-05-08 @ 16:53:24
Presumably Wal-Mart is well represented in Jesus's Stocks portfolio?
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-09 @ 18:20:15
Well I'm sure Ros would tell you the J-man does not play the markets. My reading if the new testament is the same. Its not all Chistians I wind up, just the hypocritical fundies and their OLd Testament obssessions.
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rithompson
- http://thinkinggirlblog.wordpress.com/
- 2007-05-08 @ 17:11:23
Hmmm....Christian values involve paying shit wages, and treating people like shit, do they?! Because I'm sure Jesus wouldn't approve of that!
And another point; when exactly did we regress back to Medieval forms of punishment?! Will they be bringing back hanging, drawing and quartering?!-
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Munzly
Pro
- http://limerwiki.blog.co.uk/
- 2007-05-08 @ 17:31:50
"Hmmm....Christian values involve paying shit wages, and treating people like shit, do they?! Because I'm sure Jesus wouldn't approve of that!"
And yet his representatives apparently do...-
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-09 @ 18:26:35
I have to defend Ros here, not just because she is a sweetie but because she is a socialist and is entirely consistent in her views.
My constant challenge to Christians is "what actually is a Christian?" Some like Ros are kind, tolerant and show generosity of spirit. Others are narrow minded, vengeful and self righteous. And yet both kinds say the others are not true Chistians. Who is right? -
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-10 @ 10:23:36
Ian.
What do you think should have been done about that woman?-
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-10 @ 16:36:43
Giventhe circumstances and the fact that it was a first offence (according to my info I think maybe a few hours picking up litter in the stores car park might have fitted the crime.
The case was that knowing the woman had young kids the judge offered her the choice of humiliation or 60 days in jail. No choice at all really, and 60 days was totally disproportionate for theft of a few dollarsworth of goods.
I did not give the full details of the case because I hadn't much time that day and only posted in Machiavelli because some fundie had left a comment on one of my earliers posts pointing out the error of my Godless ways.
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-10 @ 19:13:25
I think your punishment is appropriate. If people are living in a society that is so harsh to them that they are forced to steal, I think they sould not be punished. I'm not saying it would be easy to porve they were needy but I daresay it would be done if the will to do it was there.
Can you imagine this story...
Wal-Mart today announced that it was sympathetic to the ladies plight and in an attempt to act in a humanitarian fashion, actually offered the lady a job in the store from which she tried to steal. There was one condition however, the employment rested upon an undertaking that she would not steal again.
Imagine that. Can you? I long for the day when I can see headlines like that. People and businesses with a soul, a sence of compassion and a genuine effort to improve the society that enriches them. That would be so beautiful.-
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-12 @ 15:39:30
A few years ago I became aquainted via the web with Joyce Counts, a stroke survivor like me but unlike me an American. Joyce was also a diabetic so there was no way back for her (I'm almost OK) But, paralyzed on one side and unable to care for herself, Joyce had to work to keep food in the larder for her and her (also disabled) partner who had to work to pay the rent Joyce died a couple of years ago having spent the last year of her life worrying if she and Linda could make enough to survive.
That is the reality of life in a place that likes to call itself "the world's most Christian nation.
My Christian friends here are not like that at all, which is why I say that people should define themselves and not just wear labels.-
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-13 @ 15:53:39
I feel we are in danger of carepeting the whole of 'official Christendom' with badness. There certainly is badness, that's proved, but we must not forget those people in the faith and inside 'Christianity ltd', who do selflessly help people in need.
It's very sad that like that Joyce wasn't one of them and that she seems to have been left alone to fend for herself (and her partner). This is apalling, but I'm sure of some of the good apples in that barrell knew of her plight they would have helped. Its also a comment of the social services and society as a whole that she was left in that state.
The failings of the Church to find people like Joyce also terrible and they should put a lot more resources into rectifying such a deriliction of duty. Given the Churches age and the fact they havent done it tells us a lot about them, but we shouldn't forget that they do give some benefit to others. -
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-10 @ 10:31:31
A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus. Not someone who listens to manipulators and distorters of these teachings. You know something I've found strange about the "Roman Catholic Chirch" {whatever fish-head historical analysis reveals that to mean} is that it sits on HUGE amounts of cash! while a few streets away there are people sleeping on the streets. Is it wrong to think that if the teachings of Jesus were followed PROPERLY (free of corruption and perversion) the Christian institutions should be one of the poorest institutions on the planet?
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-10 @ 16:45:41
You should talk to Ros (comment from rithompson above) who has much the same view of Chistianity and on with which I would not take issue.
You mention the wealth of the RC church, what about the wealth of the American Pentecostalist megachurches. And to the pastors of such churches really need to buy so many limos or employ quite so many pretty blondes?
Now I could write a book about the gnostic origins of the Christian faith, the myth of "The Jews" (note, myth singular: there was no coherent religion in Judea, the Druidic origins of much of what passes for "Christian teachings" and the real story of the New Testament miracles.
But as I said to Irish (above) I'm not in the mood.-
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-10 @ 19:04:30
"what about the wealth of the American Pentecostalist megachurches. And to the pastors of such churches really need to buy so many limos or employ quite so many pretty blondes?"
- LOL. Yes I could/should have mentioned them too. As for the allure of the busty blonds... what can you say?
Oops, just so that I don't also just pick on one 'species' as I unintentionally did previously, perhaps we should widen the scope a bit wider from blonds, isn't that right Mr Haggard?
No wonder people are feeling isolated from the church these days. It's the church that's shifting the goalposts!
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-12 @ 15:41:48
Haggard? He sure gave his followers a bum deal.
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marigold
- 2007-05-12 @ 21:51:53
I worked for Asda briefly. One day the huge security guard came tearing through the shop in hot pursuit of a local villain. He returned with a wry grin, saying that it had cost him three quid. The young man had stolen an egg and a potato and the guard had taken pity on him and bought him his tea. Not sure what Wal-Mart would make of it, but I thought it was great
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lwtc247
- 2007-05-13 @ 14:51:25
That is a great conclusion {wonder though if the thief was the guards brother or next door neighbour's kid - lol} However, it seems like the act of kindness was a personal one and not one not involving ASDA plc. I would hazard a guess, that if the ASDA management had been involved, the kid would've been introduced to the old bill. I wonder if the security guard got a grilling for this act?
I worked at ASDA part-time too. I was quite happy with it as an organisation. This was before Wal-Mart took it over, but I dont think much 'Wal-Martification' has occured.
I think the bad practices of Wal-Mare mostly confined to the US where the labour laws are different from here.-
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ianrthorpe
- 2007-05-13 @ 17:03:16
That is true. I did hear once that after the takeover they were told by UK management to forget about communal prayers and chanting an all the other bollocks or they would find they had no-one to fill the shelves.
I don't know if that is true or not. -
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